Ep 10: Contractor Red Flags and Green Flags | What to Look for in a Contractor

Happy Episode 10, friends! 🥳

We can’t believe we have officially hit double digits. Whether you have been here since the "powdered polio" incident in Episode 1 or you just found us today—thank you. We started this podcast to build a community of women who aren't afraid to pick up power tools (or laugh at their mistakes), and reading your reviews every week makes us so happy.

To celebrate this milestone, we are dedicating this week's episode to Isabel Bowen, our favorite sister, DIY-er, and owner of Bowen's Builds.

The "Aunty Flow" Rage

Before we get into the heavy stuff (like how not to get scammed by a contractor), we have to talk about Rage. We all have those days (or weeks) where everything is annoying, the dog hates you, and you just want to quit everything. We call this visiting "Aunty Flow."

Samantha shared a core memory of this feeling: The time she rage-quit her high school cheerleading squad in the middle of a track meet. She didn't just quit; she threw her uniform on the track and walked off the field in nothing but a turtleneck bodysuit and tennis shoes.

If you have ever felt that level of "I am done," this episode is for you.

Red Flag or Green Flag? Hiring a Contractor

Once we calmed down, we played a game of "Red Flag, Green Flag" regarding hiring tradespeople. If you are looking to hire someone for a renovation, here are the warning signs you need to look out for.

1. "I'll give you a discount for cash."

• The Verdict: Red Flag / Yellow Flag 🚩

• Why: We all love a deal, but paying cash often means there is no paper trail. If the contractor takes your money and ghosts you, or does a terrible job, you have no proof of payment and no contract to stand on.

• The Reality: Legitimate businesses usually prefer checks or cards for their own bookkeeping. If they are pushing hard for cash, they might be dodging taxes—and if they cut corners on taxes, they will likely cut corners on your house.

2. "I need 100% payment upfront."

• The Verdict: MAJOR RED FLAG 🚩🚩

• Why: You should never pay in full before the work starts. If you do, you have zero leverage.

• What is Normal? A reasonable deposit (anywhere from 10% to 50%) is standard to cover materials and reserve your spot on the schedule. But if they want it all before they lift a hammer, run.

3. Trash Talking Other Contractors

• The Verdict: Red Flag 🚩

• Why: If a contractor walks into your house and immediately starts roasting the work of the previous guy ("Who did this? They were a hack!"), it is unprofessional.

• Green Flag: A professional will say, "This wasn't done to code, here is how we are going to fix it," without making it personal.

4. Change Orders (Asking for more money mid-project)

• The Verdict: Yellow/Green Flag 🟢

• Why: This sounds scary, but it’s actually honest. If they open a wall and find termites or rot, they should stop and tell you it will cost more to fix.

• The "Bad" Version: A bad contractor would just cover it up to keep the price the same (and leave you with a rotting house). Good contractors communicate the problem, give you a price, and let you decide.

Local Loves

We shouted out a few of our favorite local tradespeople in this episode. If you are in the Lansing area, check them out:

• Plumbing: Diamond Water Solutions (Ask for Tim! He is the "Master Plumber" who will answer the phone and help you out). https://diamondwatermi.com/

• Roofing: Elieff Brothers (They prioritize safety and do incredible work). https://www.elieffbrothers.com/

Transcript: Episode 10

Hello! Welcome back. We missed you.

Yeah we did. It's been a whole three days if you listen to the Side Quest.

Welcome to How to Handyma'am. The podcast where we enthusiastically mispronouncify our words.

In this episode we talk about Aunty Flow. And we mention some red flags, green flags, and yellow flags that your contractor might have. So you can know what to expect when you are expecting a project.

That's right. I'm Samantha.

I'm Emily.

And I'm Arly. And this is How to Handyma'am. And I am dedicating this episode to my lovely sister, Isabel Bowen. She is amazing. She is doing it herself with everything. She's doing herself home renovations, designs, creating businesses out of thin air. Being a wonderful wife and sister and daughter and friend. We love you.

And you can follow her at Bowen's Builds on Instagram.

Yeah. Thanks we're glad you're here. Let's get into the episode.

Okay so what is our chatting topic that you guys would like to bring up?

Punctuation. AKA periods.

Okay. Not actually punctuation.

Periods. Talking about Aunt Flo. The Red Devil.

If this makes our male listeners uncomfy... sorry. You're in the wrong place to start.

Every month I think my life is horrible and my life is ending. And I come into work and I'm like "I am so grumpy and I hate everything and everyone." And then the next day my period starts. Every month. And then my period starts the next day and I'm like "Huh. That's why I was a raging B-word yesterday."

Your version of raging B-word though was like "I'm sad."

Yeah. You're like "I'm slightly less friendly today. But in a way that you would barely even notice unless I verbalized it."

But I was crying a lot. And then I was telling Lucas about this last night. Lucas is my husband. And I was like... and he was like "Babe I'm gonna be honest I picked up on the pattern and I assumed you were about to start your period but I didn't want to say anything cause I didn't want to be that guy."

Oh yeah. No don't say anything. Pregnancy and periods. Never guess.

I know. Because I was crying because our dog wouldn't take cream cheese with her pill in it from me but she would take it from Lucas. And he was like "Well you've been working a lot so she hasn't been around you as much." And I was like "My dog hates me!" And then I came into work and I was like "My dog hates me!" And then my period started the next day and I was like "It's all good."

Turns out.

So yeah that was my talk about periods.

I get that way when I'm hungry.

Me too.

You both turn into silent toddler mode. Like zombie mode. And I'm like "What? What? What?" And you're like "Have you eaten?" I know I'll walk in and be like "Don't talk to me about what I do with my life." Or when you have like "I have a headache." And I'm like "Have you eaten? Have you had water? Any of these?"

Like "No. Of course not. I'm running on Mountain Dew and sugar. Thank you."

But I do have one thing to say to the listeners.

What is it?

Thank you so much for engaging and commenting lately. We've had a lot more people like commenting and asking questions. And we want to be your besties. Your construction besties. To tell you stuff that no one else maybe would tell you. So it brings us joy that we're building a community here.

Yeah. Like three times in the last two days. Once on our group and twice in like random other Facebook groups for women DIYers they have asked about "Why is my grout cracking?"

I thought that was so interesting.

I know I was like "I know why! It's so easy to fix. Let me just tell you what should happen and what can happen now." It's so exciting.

I love when people comment "I'm following because you're definitely my people."

I love that.

Someone commented that yesterday and they said "I listened to the first episode and I heard powdered polio and knew you guys were my people."

Yeah. And we share those comments with each other. So like as soon as you post it one of us is gonna send it to our pod host group chat and be like "Look at this!"

I love that. And it's extra meaningful because one of the things we talked about when we were getting started was about like... well other people in our life were like "Should you maybe dial in the crazy a little bit?" And we were like "It's not possible." So we're just gonna find the people who enjoy that.

Yeah. And we might be a little extra crazy this episode because you guys will be hearing this on a Friday. We normally record on Fridays. We're recording Saturday night!

Saturday night live! Live from the pod studio. Except it's not live.

It's live to us.

In the dark. We aren't responsible for what happens here.

We aren't responsible for our language or any of our life choices.

I have another accomplishment to talk about. Episode 7 was released yesterday. Y'all we didn't sing once in it.

What? That seems problematic.

We got to be back on our game.

Because my favorite comment in the last two weeks was the person that was like "Okay I listened to whatever episode it was." And she's like "Then I had to pause it and go listen to three hours of Hamilton." Because we basically we did Ella Enchanted and Hamilton and Princess Bride. So we were like breaking out all the best songs.

Oh and I have a correction shell or whatever we're calling it. Lucas wanted everyone to know that hey listeners if you experienced a weird cut in the video there... That would be because our SD card got full. Which means we've made 120 gigabytes of content for you but we have not been clearing the card.

We just kept talking and it was a very funny story but you didn't get to hear it.

Yeah let's start back up where Samantha said "In high school I was a cheerleader and me and my best friend liked the same guy."

And he wasn't even a football player. He wasn't even a real human.

No so there were six of us that cheered together and were girlfriends. So one of my girlfriends liked that group of girls that I love. This is so dumb when I think back about it. It was just his name. I can't even remember his name that's how like important it was.

So if you're listening to this and you're in high school... And stuff feels real big right now. This too shall pass.

Yes. So we're cheering on the track at a football game. And I like this boy. This boy does not like me. He likes my girlfriend. Because she's a lot cute than me.

Shut up. No seriously. She was pretty adorable. Is pretty adorable. Anyway. He really liked her. I did not even know this boy. But I was so mad. Probably 17 year old me anyway. It was dumb. I got so mad I quit cheerleading. And took off my uniform on the track.

No. Samantha Pearl.

And threw it at my cheerleading coach. And walked off the field in my bodysuit and tennis shoes.

You were like "Get a load of this."

Just me. And the bodysuits were turtle neck long sleeves. Underwear. So cute. Just like a long sleeve gymnastics leotard.

Oh yeah. I mean it lasted like 10 minutes. Just like I like stormed out of my job at Dairy Queen two or three times in the course of my teenage years there.

Uh yeah cause Dairy Queen... like it seems like it was fun but it was kind of like when I worked at a movie theater and there was some parts of the job where it's just...

There was a lot of drama. But my boss I gotta give him credit. And he has passed now but he dealt with a lot of teenagers. And he would just be like I would be like "Can I come back to work?" He'd be like "Yes." Because I was a good worker and I feel like I was probably the 100th hormonal teenager that had done that.

Oh so cringey.

Can I say a controversial take?

Oh.

That everyone should have to work some service job at some point in their life.

Oh 100%.

Because the way some people be acting at these stores nowadays. You could not pay me to go back to retail. But also this is my PSA people. Just be a nice human. Just be nice.

Retail or no people who work retail make almost no money so be mean to them. I will tell you a secret. They don't get to decide what coupons you use. They don't get to decide the refund policy.

I know. I always think when even like since I've worked in not retail service sort of. I was like a waitress and like a wedding coordinator assistant person for a while and yikes.

Oh girl you were in the wedding industry that's more F'd up than most things.

But like I was like "I'm... I was like does it look like I own this place?" Like I'm like 22. Do I look like I have any authority over whether you're allowed to drink here or not? No. Like my boss told me that you're not allowed to drink your beer in the parking lot.

Yeah. That's one thing about being a boss. You have to deliver the hard news. If you pay your people minimum wage you have to deliver all the hard news. That is not fair.

Yeah. Um Thomas bleep out the name of the store just for the mystery. But when I worked at [BEEP] um there was this one interaction I had. I gotta tell you. This one cracks me up. I don't know if it's the same one you're thinking about but... You do have a nice stable of stories from there.

But it was a Sunday and we got a big after church crowd cause it was a Christian based company. And this lady comes in. She's fuming. We start this interaction this woman is mad at me. And I'm like "Okay."

She's mad already? At the beginning?

Yes she came in mad. She stomped through the store I could hear her. And the girl up front because we always had a girl up front on the walkie they'd like they had we had a script. And they'd be like "This girl's mad and she wants the butterfly on duty" which was the name for the manager and it was me. I was like "Dammit." How can I pretend I don't exist.

But I just stood at the counter cause I knew that's where she was coming. Smiling. She throws her receipt in my face and is like "The last person I came in here wouldn't return this and they said if I did return it I'd have to return it for current value which is a dollar sixty." It was a blouse she had bought two years prior at the opening of the store. Like this thing had not been in stock forever. And the return policy was 30 days. Not two years.

So she started by throwing the receipt in my face and I said like "I'm sorry I can't help you." So she unfurled the receipt did uh like shoved it in my face so I could read it crumpled it up again and then threw it back in my face. And I was like I was like normally I was so like I would have just honestly to get her out of the store would have just been like you can have five dollars here you go. But I was so indignant. And this woman had a name tag from her church still on. And I was like "I'm sorry I can't make that return."

Yeah.

I'm sorry. You can exchange it for something from the sale room. Something else that's a dollar sixty. Yeah I said like you can go look in the sale room if there's any top that you want even if it's like ten dollars I'll exchange it. And she was like "This is the worst customer service I've ever had." And I wanted to say "Jesus is watching you."

Like Jesus doesn't care about the sales receipt neither do I.

But she then proceeded to throw the receipt behind the counter so I was like "Well next time you come in the receipt's in the trash so good luck." You can't harass anybody else.

It's pretty impressive she held onto that receipt for two years.

Yeah I mean yeah it is impressive. I gotta give her credit for that.

What have we decided upon? We had decided upon red flag green flag blue flag yellow flag.

Blue? Minus the blue. Okay. Red fish green fish orange fish blue fish. Except it's one fish two fish. Oh is that what it is? Oh.

So the answers are red green one or two.

Which is sideways thumb. Or three. No okay it's red yellow or green flags for dadadadada contractors.

Yay! Or we're about to call ourselves out.

Well some of these are very they seem kind of obvious. But that's coming from people who've been working with contractors. Yeah. Um and then some of them are like maybe um uh some things I haven't even really heard of before um I just kind of looked up lists and stuff like that so um we'll see.

So our job is to say red flag green. You're going to tell us a story and then we're going to say red flag green.

I'm going to give you like a phrase or a scenario. Okay. It'll be quick. And then you guys can say that you think it's a green flag because red flag because or yellow flag because. And we'll How about we do a 3 2 1 and we answer at the same time? Okay I like that.

Okay. Um we give a discount for cash payment. 3 2 1. Red flag. Red flag.

I agree.

Uh red flag because that usually means they're not claiming it on their taxes.

Although I will say that there is an increasing move to go to cash instead of credit card so that the uh vendor doesn't have to pay the fee. But if checks aren't okay that's the red flag. Like if it's cash specifically yeah usually means they're not claiming it.

Yeah. A lot of people on like forums and stuff said that it often is accompanied without a contract or a paper trail. So if you can't prove that you have paid or you don't have any paper trail that they are committing to working for you especially with like a down payment or something like that that's definitely a red flag I think. Sometimes maybe it's due to like lack of experience maybe it's just a handyman like or a handy woman working in your area and they're new to the business and because it's not always 100% that they're like you know mischievous or anything but.

Well and a contractor especially some of the old school contractors they may still hand write your estimate and that's okay. Or hand write you a receipt that's also okay. It's just the like no documentation at all. Yeah.

It also means you don't have any legal recourse like if you can't prove exactly what you paid or what you even agreed to pay for. Because hopefully you don't need legal recourse with a contractor but it's just it's important for both sides to be protected in an arrangement. I think the overall point is if you have a contractor who continues to insist on something that makes you uncomfortable that is not the contractor for you. No matter how like cheap and quick they're promising normally the sales tactics that are usually sketchy are the ones where they want you to hurry up and make a decision. Or you'll lose out on this or they won't be able to do your job or whatever the case is so anytime you're feeling rushed to make a decision that's 100% of the time do not make a decision. Yeah.

Okay. A contractor gives you a short estimate with one price. 3 2 1. Yellow. Yellow.

I say no flag at all. Sometimes that's the case.

Okay. Explain.

Yellow is neutral.

Yeah neutral.

I'd say it's kind of just neutral because it wouldn't say it's like a red red flag. But like a green flag would be like you get itemized and you know what's happening and so sometimes though like I'm our estimator so I'm particular about this but I want our client like if they decide to remove a piece of the estimate I want them to know fully the price line item. Because if you like say you're doing like a laundry room remodel and they're like "Well I don't want to do the tile floor anymore." And in their head they're thinking "Oh I was gonna charge 3k for the tile floor but I'm gonna tell them I was gonna charge 1k." So like it makes it easier for you to I just in these situations I like people to have the full breadth of knowledge about what they're paying for and what they're getting into so.

Yeah. I'd say yellow because it doesn't necessarily mean they're a bad contractor like it just.

Well and sometimes it's the price is this to do it and the price to not do it. Sometimes there are just two prices. It is one thing that they're doing and they're just fixing one thing for you and that's just one short simple thing. But if you are having like you know a whole room redone or like a lot of things especially if you expect that that the trim that they're installing is also going to be caulked and wood filled and painted like those are things that you probably want on your estimate because even if you say during your estimate "I want this stuff done" it's not on your estimate and it doesn't get done they could be like "Well you didn't you're not paying for that. This is what you're paying for." And it's very good you know if you're spending your money for somebody else to do it to have a very clear picture of what you're accepting and what the contractor expects to do and what you expect them to do.

Well and I will say a good contractor will want their customer to be comfortable. So like yes we've had some customers where like the excruciating amount of detail they want is way beyond what even the normal healthy amount of information we give. But in the end it's like it's their money and we're performing a service for them so even if it's like a lot of work they're inviting us into their home to do the work. So if your contractor doesn't give you the information in the first place it doesn't necessarily mean it's a red flag. If they will not give it to you that's a red flag. Yeah.

Okay a contractor asks about project goal budget and solutions. 3 2 1. Green flag. Green flag.

I thought so too. So they should uh want to know what you want and uh what the overall goal is.

Yeah and sometimes it can feel slimy asking for a budget like I don't always ask for a budget in estimates purely because I don't want people thinking that I'm going to go to the max of their budget. So uh if you're not comfortable with that like you're worried a contractor is going to do that you don't have to share the budget with them. I have plenty of people and then after I submit the estimate a few times they have been like "Okay well here's where I was kind of thinking." Just I understand it's from bad experiences in the past. As much as I wish they could be like "My budget for this bathroom is 30k" and so then I could perfectly tailor a plan that is 30k um but that's fine.

I think there are some industries where like one example would be fireplace inserts they cost a lot of money and I wouldn't be surprised if uh the person at a fireplace you know like a chimney or fireplace company someone calls in and they're like "Well what's your budget?" and they say $400. It makes sense for them to screen those calls because a lot of people wouldn't know like when we priced our fireplace insert it was $6,000. Yeah. And yours is like a smaller one. Yeah so that's it's just helpful sometimes to know so it can make you feel a little slimy and if you don't if you're not comfortable with that then that just might not be the contractor for you.

Yeah I mean there's also the like the difference between uh what kind of work you're looking to get done. If you're looking for a functional fix that can be a much different price than a facelift. And you know I know that when Emily goes to estimates she will kind of suss out whether somebody wants just the bare minimum done you know cheaper materials and you know more like as cost effective as we can get by solving this problem and other people who are like this is kind of an aesthetic uh remodel or situation here. And that that you know that impacts things.

I mean like Kohler makes beautiful toilets that cost up to like thousands of dollars. Some of them have like fancy designs carved into the side and stuff. Some people just want the $199 toilet from Lowe's. Yeah. So it's all of them will flush your poop. Yes they will. Hopefully unless you need a macerating one and you put a normal one in the basement then that's problematic.

Okay uh the um I just read that one. Um so they have a strict change order policy. 3 2 1. I think it's a green flag.

I'd say yeah yellow or green. Definitely not a red flag. It's not a red flag.

And here's here's why I think so. Having been on some long projects ourselves like some if you're getting into a project that's like $20,000 and up you're going to change your mind about something in the middle of the project. And here's a great example we put a roof on our rental house and they gave us a price that was the price we could afford. They asked us about a couple of things uh like adjusting like how the drip edge is done and I'm like I don't care how the drip edge is done. They never mentioned it would cost more to have it done the other way and then afterward they're like that will be $8,000 more dollars.

Yeah. So I think change orders protect both the contractor and the customer. You anytime you make a change you need to clarify is there a cost associated with this. And if there is you need to document it so the cost is the cost. The contractor knows what the cost is and you've agreed to pay it and you know what the cost is and you've agreed they've agreed not to charge you anymore than that. Yeah. So for me I think change orders are important. I mean if someone says like can you hang that an inch higher no you don't need a change order but yeah for things that are gonna I think anytime a price is gonna change you need a change order.

I agree. I think the only time it would be a red flag is if um you want to change your mind and they're not able to. I mean maybe sometimes that's the way it has to be with maybe some bigger companies but if we talk to a customer and they're like I really don't like this product anymore or I don't like this design or now that this is this wall's taken out I really want to change my mind I don't think that any of us would really be like "Well you agreed that we were gonna redo it this way and we have to redo it that way." I think it depends on the size of the project too because if your builder has already ordered $50,000 worth of windows for your new build house like those are the windows you're gonna get.

Yeah unless you want to pay for them and then pay again. And the time that it will delay your project. Yeah so there are I mean there are definitely some situations where the answer is like might I guess it should never be no if you're willing to pay. But there might be times when it's like your builder says this is the budget and you can't afford another 70k so like yeah we can do this for you but here's how it impacts the schedule and here's how it impacts the budget. Yeah. Again another point of you should feel uh comfortable at all points. You should know what's going on. You might be unsure. You might not like it but you should know. If it's not going to be more I feel like I always try to mention like this isn't going to change the price of labor but it will change the price of your material or vice versa or it won't change at all this is just an option that you have. Yeah. Well and like we have we have a certain storm door we love shout out Anderson 4000 series which goes in in like 45 minutes and we have one price for that and then we have another price for literally every other storm door on the planet which are big pains in the butt. So sometimes it's like your materials might not change that much but your labor will change based on what you pick. I think communication is the key however it's impacted you should know.

Okay. The price that the um contractor gives you has a quick expiration date. 3 2 1. I don't know. Yellow. I think it's neutral like it depends on. Might be annoying but well if the expiration date is you have to make a decision while they're in your house that's to me that's a huge red flag. Yeah. But like ours is two weeks generally. Yeah and maybe someone does a couple days which I don't know why they would but normally it's like two weeks to a month or they want you to make a decision while they're still in your house. Yeah. To me that's a huge red flag. Yeah definitely if they're not giving you time to think about it or discuss it or give you time to research it's definitely a red flag. You should be aware as a consumer that there are very highly developed sales programs that many companies put their sales people through and I'm not no judgment here you should just know as a consumer that they have gone through here's how to overcome this objection here's how to overcome this objection and you can see when they bring that iPad out and they're walking you through step by step by step that the end of that funnel takes you to signing something. So as long as you know that they can do what they need to do to try to make a living and then you just like for us my husband and I we just say we don't make decisions on the spot. We just don't that's our policy. And they're like well you'll lose out we'll be like well we'll have to lose out. And in your head you're like and I'm not working with you. Yeah yeah. For us we don't for us it's like we know what it costs us to do the job so that's what it costs us to do the job and run an above the board business so there aren't any sign now and get a $1500 discount because that either that $1500 would have been fake or it's coming out of how I pay you Arly. Yeah that's my whole paycheck. So unless someone's selling you like materials they can get a huge savings on like like we bought our windows from a company that manufactures their own windows they can give you a discount because they're the ones making them but labor you pay your people the same no matter what so discounting labor is always a little fishy to me. Yeah.

Okay. Asking for payment upfront. 3 2 1. Full payment? I say yellow because the circumstances matter. But like for a big job if it's 100% upfront I'd say red flag. I'd say anything 100% upfront. Yeah cause there's no recourse for you to you have no power. You have no power. No you're at there so I think it's not it's very traditional to pay or at least I think it's reasonable for to expect your contractor to float your materials cost. So I think it's reasonable for them to ask for materials cost upfront but then those materials should get delivered to your house so that at least you have the materials if the contractor leaves. And then some reasonable deposit because one thing that people might not realize when they're paying a deposit it's like you haven't done any work yet why am I paying a deposit well part of it is because if you change your mind they have scheduled their crew to come to your house. Yeah. And they can't just stick them somewhere else you know they might be out that entire week's revenue so they want to know that you're committed so a reasonable deposit which any I would think anywhere between 10 and 25% on labor. Yeah we just for full transparency we do 100% materials and 25% labor um which means you're floating the materials cost upfront and then there's still 75% of the payment that like if we mess up you're able to withhold until it's made right and stuff. And so yeah and I mean I think some industry standard usually is up to 50% which I wouldn't be surprised like especially on decks and things like that I know like bigger deck companies do require that upfront which I mean you just pick if that's fine for you we do less just so our customers feel more comfortable. We want them to know that they have some power left and that they can say no at the end of it if they don't like it like they I mean we don't require our customers to force us to do the right thing but then they know that they have that 75%. Yeah they have a little bit of you know they feel like they have a little bit more control of the situation. Cause if you've paid everything not only do you not have any recourse but your builder doesn't have any incentive to come back. Yeah that's true yeah. We had a client who had to pay a deck 100% upfront and then she got screwed over like the client the contractor company did a terrible job on her deck and just promptly went out of business. So there wasn't even any recourse for her so it was like 40k done gone. That's really scary. Yeah dad and I got new carpet when we were in our very first house shortly after we got married and they came um and dropped off the carpet cut a couple pieces and then went to lunch and never came back so we came home and were like "This is interesting." And then they managed to they got someone to come in and finish installing it and then like two days later they went out of business but they we never paid ever? No because they never they just like you got free carpet we got free carpet well we had to pay a deposit but the rest of it was free so once people once a business goes out of business like you really there's nothing you can do we benefited from it but that's not normally what happens.

Okay um mentioning competitors in a negative way during an estimate. Super red flag. Red red red red red. Blinking red. I said I said yellow flag because we sometimes say there we don't know 100% what's in here but we can guarantee this and these are likely solutions. I'm talking about trash talk. Oh trash talk? Oh yeah. Yeah trash talking. Yes. It's hard when I'm in somebody's house and I see a contractor that has like severely like taken advantage or just done really poor work in somebody else's house like we were working in a salon where they had worked with multiple contractors before us and it was really it was very terrible it was also kind of like devastating because this nice woman we really liked her and we did like some extra work and we tried to do the best that we could and we would have worked for free for her if we could have just to right their wrongs but like obviously we can't do that um because we have to like pay our rent or whatever. We have to like make money as a business. And you always want like rent or whatever you have to pay to live in this house whatever. Um but so like it it was probably hard for you to see that stuff and relate to her and be like you know not trash talk them. Oh my god who was this? Yeah plus you just never know like the person who did the poor work might have been their late husband yeah or it might be they might be talking smack about their family member that did it but you're not going to be talking smack about their family member that did it and you don't know the situation the contractor was in like we just try to empathize if someone's like I really hate this we we will say I'm really sorry this happened to you well and like I don't want our clients to then be like I had a bad experience sometimes I'll be like yeah that wasn't right here's how we can help like yeah move it on yeah any contractor that is lingering on how horrible things are in your house is is not going to be the right contractor.

Okay but I do have a little bit of a cheeky red flag for a client on our end as the contractor is when they complain about every other contractor they've ever had. And it's like visibly not terrible work like in this situation with the salon I was like oh absolutely I understand like in my head I was like yikes but we had a client who every contractor everyone they had ever had had done them dirty and that's when my brain starts going there's a common denominator here so just a different perspective. That salon ended up by the way looking really nice and um it it looks amazing.

Okay um also a contractor should let their work speak for how much better they are than other contractors in my opinion. Plus if you're talking about a competitor and you're just like oh the guy from there he's such a doofus or whatever like that's not really based on like a like facts um yeah you're just seeing something you have no context for what actually happened. And as a homeowner you can probably tell the difference between uh contractor being friendly and just saying like you know I have heard that like maybe you should do your research about this person because I haven't heard great things that might be I don't know somewhat acceptable but to you know have half of your estimate being taken up with you really shouldn't go with this other guy because he's a little twat or something you should not be having a venting session with your contractor. Unless you're the one that vents. My favorite thing is if a client is like should I use this person and I know we've had clients in the past I mean it's kind of a fib I guess I'll say I don't know very much about them but I do know a lot about this company and refer someone who I know is going to take good care of them so yeah we will refer someone else.

We've had a few roof problems a few roofing companies who we don't love. We're not gonna we're not gonna trash them but just not we're just not going to do that but we will steer people to companies that we know take good care. I will shout out one Lansing roof company Elf Brothers does fabulous work in Lansing. I haven't seen the people that did the roof across my uh no I think that was a different company but they did um they did Sue and Laura's house but they the reason I found them to even suggest them to a client is I was driving past their work one day and I think I called you immediately after I saw this they had tented off all the bushes all the belongings and we had just finished working with we had just finished pulling bricks out of my destroyed out of everything yard after the roofing job so I was like oh my gosh we need to work with these people and so Elf Brothers you don't know us very well but we love you and you do great work. Yeah that's really an OSHA inspector could drive by one of their work sites and have no notes for them. Oh that's good. How people treat their employees is how they're going to treat you yeah so if their employees if you're like whoo or the employee is talking bad about their employer like if they're like a windows sales person or they're just like they seem a little off I would follow your intuition so yeah and sometimes it you know it's not the worst experience you've ever had but I like to have good experiences with my contractors yeah well that wasn't they become like my life partners I'm like you're my HVAC person yeah you may not want to be but now you are yeah we have an HVAC and electrical and a plumbing partner finally we finished the trifecta Tim we've been waiting for you a long time man. If you are local and you need a plumber Diamond Water Solutions is the people to go to female owned Brianna is the owner and Tim is the master plumber he's he is so good I can't even tell you what it means to have someone who is like will pick up your phone call if you have questions will come and help you if they can or if you're like trying to do something plumbing adjacent and you're like struggling who will help you who you can send to your customer's house without being there and know exactly the experience they're going to have yeah. If you're local to Lansing um we'll have the uh websites for Diamond Water Solution and Elf Brothers in because they're really great examples of like treating people right and they treat their partners well and they do yeah they do great work.

Okay are we on have we hit the last one yet I'm excited we haven't how many how how long do we have left this is we probably have okay none well I guess we might have to do a part two then because I have a couple we can do a couple let me pick one more there are so many helpful things to share about how to deal effectively with your contractor relationships but people won't want to hear them all at once but if you have any questions if you're like my contractor did this and it was sketchy because I will bad talk contractors to my clients but I will tell you if I'm like don't do that well and it's good too yeah to be able to say no that's not normal or to reassure you yes that is a normal practice among good contractors yes so let us know or if you've had a great experience with a contractor I just love hearing like the great experiences so we like referring people too like we we do a handful of stuff but we like referring people especially if they have like great you know uh customer reviews yeah we love it it's like oh we love this customer and we're like we know somebody will take good care of you there's uh the trades could often be a dog eat dog world we just don't treat it that way yeah we like we don't we like to have an ecosystem of friendly trades people around us there is more than enough trades work even for people who do exactly what we do there it there is no need to be competing we can be collaborating exactly okay last one then work will become clear after we begin red flag uh yellow I said I said yellow flag because we sometimes say that's true there we don't know 100% what's in here but we can guarantee this and these are likely solutions and what they think so but still we're clear ahead of time cause we tell you if we open up the wall and we do not find it full of living termites this is what the project will involve if we open up your wall and six million ants crawl out this is what the project is going to look like ask us how we know yeah you should always have a a very good understanding of exactly what the initial steps are going to be and what will happen if something comes off the rails because I will say it's it is not a red flag for a contractor's scope of work to change if they open up a wall or a floor and life is not as you expected it to be the just it's nice to have those conversations ahead of time cause here's why when we talk to a customer it they may have saved up let's say $1500 that's what they have to spend so if I tell them the job is 1500 and I don't mention it might get more expensive that's not really fair to the customer because if I tell them that ahead of time they have the opportunity to say I'm going to wait until I've saved the extra money just in case but you're taking away their ability to decide if you don't warn them ahead of time it's like our roofers who were like here's your bill for $8,000 more dollars it's like I didn't budget $52,000 for this job I budgeted $44,000 I don't have $8,000 extra dollars like that is not the time to be talking about money with your customers yeah and be transparent with your builder if you have a budget in mind or if you get the initial quote like sometimes as I said I know it can be a little nerve-wracking to be like I have $30,000 to spend on this kitchen the contractor was thinking 15k and now they're suddenly like it's a $30,000 kitchen but maybe after the second quote like I just had a bathroom quote that was really expensive her inspo picks were like the creme de la creme of stuff so I did the quote for the creme de la creme and I know listeners I'm sorry I'm about to say a scary number it was 75k worth of a bathroom remodel I know that sounds scary I know that's fair people in a different tax bracket than me but then she came back and she said okay here's around where I was thinking and I'm able to adjust the estimate and be like okay well we can forego these gold fixtures that you wanted we can get you down to that area so if you really like a contractor they should really be willing to work with you on stuff so.

So Emily if people want to ask us questions about their own contractors or their experiences or find us for other reasons how do they do that? They can follow us at How to Handyma'am at most sites were particularly active on um TikTok Instagram and Facebook and on Facebook we have a group called How to Handyma'am if you search How to Handyma'am group you will find us and then all of this will be linked in our link tree which is linked in our bio and then if you want to personally email us you can email us at hthm@myhandymaam.com that's right and if you want to see what we do for other people you can find us pretty much everywhere at myhandymaam.com and if you're diehard fans and you're like my handyma'am How to Handyma'am is the best thing in the whole freaking world and I want to be your cheerleader you can uh request to get into our advocate group How to Handyma'am advocate group and you can advocate for us inside circle like the inner circle of the inner circle and you want to know what a green flag for listeners is what to leave a 5 star review on Spotify or Apple podcasts there you go you're our people.